MEL #030 | From Entry-Level Engineer to Executive Leader Through Trust and Tenacity with Phil Byerly

BYERLY (00:00)

There are three kinds of people in this world. There are problem solvers. There are problem reporters. And there are problem causers. You want as many problem solvers as you can get. And your problem reporters, you try to convert them into problem solvers, but you can still handle a couple of problem reporters. And any problem causers you got, get rid of them.

ADAMS (00:48)

In this episode, I speak with Phil Byerly a former supply chain executive turned business consultant. Phil stumbled into engineering thanks to a late suggestion from his mother and his strength in math and hands-on work. He ultimately chose industrial engineering drawn by its blend of people, systems, and business. After graduation, rather than taking a flashier aerospace job option, he chose a manufacturing role with VF Corporation, valuing the people and growth opportunities there. His 34-plus year career at VF (one of the world’s largest apparel and footwear companies with brands such as the North Face, Vans, Timberland, and Dickies), spanned multiple functions, including plant management and executive roles in global supply chain. 

A key leadership challenge was aligning operations and finance forecasting to reduce miscommunication and improve performance. Phil tackled this by embedding finance personnel into collaborative planning meetings, removing executive presence to encourage candid discussion,and encouraging team members to dollarize unit forecasts. This cross-functional integration improved accuracy, accountability, and team development. Phil encourages aspiring engineering leaders to go for it and start now. He advocates for hands-on experience, building trust and work ethic, developing interpersonal skills, and investing in self-awareness. He also emphasizes humility, communication, and his personal faith as the foundation of his leadership.

Without further delay, here is my conversation with Phil Byerly.

ADAMS (02:13)

Hi, Phil. Welcome to Mastering Engineering Leadership.

BYERLY (02:15)

Well, good morning and glad to be here and looking forward to our conversation.

ADAMS (02:20)

Thank you, me too. Can you start by telling us how you got into engineering?

BYERLY (02:24)

Sure. It was kind of an 11th hour kind of thing. It was not something early on. was basically I had to make the choice when I was filling out application to go to college and declare major. And so I hadn’t really given a whole lot of thought before that. But my dad, who is a UT professor in geology, an educator, and I had a twin brother, still do, and he was going to college too.

He kind of informed us, we get to choose any UT campus we want to go to college at. So I decided going to UT Knoxville, had that part down. And then my mom, who is an educator also, she just threw out the word engineering. And I don’t know if it’s because she thought math was a good, it was my strongest subject. Or she knew I liked to work on lawn mowers and things like that. I don’t know if it was that or.

They just had some good friends that were engineers and had good careers as engineers. But it was enough for me to look into engineering. And what I saw, I liked, I liked the odds of landing a good paying job, which was important to me. And so I went for it and just signed up and said, my major is going to be mechanical engineering. And then after a year of basic engineering, said,

I’m going to switch to industrial engineering. And so that’s when I made my choice. And I’m pretty stubborn when I make a choice, you know, I stick with it. And I will say I did switch to industrial engineering because I just felt it was a better fit. If I was to describe basic engineering courses, I would use the word endure more than Excel.

I’ve always intrigued by business, but having educators as parents, I never was around business as much, but I liked business. had my long-bowing business. liked negotiating and industrial engineering required business electives. And it was about people and processes and systems. And that just was a better fit for my personality. So I went for it.

ADAMS (04:18)

Yeah, that’s great. I’m curious, did you consider, did you consider going to the business school, like switching out of the engineering and going to the business school or were you firmly like, no, and I’m definitely saying in engineering, but you just wanted to switch majors out of, out of mechanical.

BYERLY (04:31)

Is a good question. Out of ignorance, I had a lot of friends that chose finance and accounting. so I just knew those as words, really. I didn’t really know them as a career opportunity. And now I am stubborn.

and I’d hear them whining about their hard courses and accounting. And I’m like, you got to go try these engineering courses. And that’s the other reason I’ve chosen industrial engineering so I could take accounting and I go, look.

And I’m like, made A’s in that. Did you know I took a D in this one for diploma in basic engineering? And it was like, and it was the hardest grade I ever worked for. But you know, my career offered me opportunities to engage. And we’ll talk about that later because it was a good choice actually. We can talk about it now. Because I did have some good choices when I graduated in four years.

actually five, but I hit the road running, graduated in May and I started a job in June and I had good choices. I had a job offer out in Long Beach, California with McDonnell Douglas putting together airplanes. And I looked at that job and then there was this company called Red Cap Industries. They really didn’t even know how to spell cat. They spelled it with a K and they made industrial uniforms.

you know, garments. And they were based in Nashville, but the job that had offered to me was in Russellville, Kentucky. Not known for much. It did have a bank, Jesse James Robb. did have, it did have tobacco festival days where they had outhouse races around the town square. Those were some of the more popular things. But I ended up after just listening to the job offers and

really, actually, I’m surprised at my wisdom then, but I went with the rag business. I went with the industrial uniforms over kind of the Long Beach, California job and making airplanes. And the reason was I just, in my gut, I could tell that they were good people. You know how in the South, we say them good people, you know? It’s really true.

ADAMS (06:28)

Right.

BYERLY (06:30)

They were good people. could tell they liked each other, which was important. And they liked me and I liked them. And the Long Beach job, the guy really didn’t help himself. He’s like, here’s your room. You’re going to be working with 25 other industrial engineers. I’m like, well, I’m not going to get worked up. I talk too much. And then he goes, like the mountains and the ocean? I go, yeah, I really do. you’re not going to have time for that. I’m like, So I didn’t.

you know, add it up. And then I looked at Redcap, it was a strong financial company. And I tell people when you’re looking for a job, judge it on people and make sure it’s a growing company, because growing companies equal opportunities. You don’t want to wait for Fred to retire or something like worse to happen to for there to be any kind of movement, you want one growing. And actually, Redcap Industries, as I learned more, used to be part of Bluebell.

and Bluebell Holdings had Wrangler Jeans, Jansport. And so it was a much bigger company than I thought. And then even prior, like in 86, I joined in 89 and 86, a company called VF Corporation acquired Bluebell. And Bluebell had Lee Jeans. They had Vanity Fair Intimates and some things like that. And when they bought Bluebell, they became the largest publicly traded

apparel company in the world. who to thunk? I didn’t know that. Right. But there it is. And it grew. They loved to buy these great brands and connect them to their great supply chain, struggling brands, but great brands connecting to our supply chain. And it just hit the bottom line and the top line. So in the 2000s, they acquired this company called the North Face and Vans.

some smaller ones like Eagle Creek and Smart Wool Fund brands. But when they connected the North Face brand to our supply chain, was phenomenal growth. it was a lot of fun and a lot of opportunities came from that. So people don’t know VF, but they do know our brand. I usually have to call them out. So anyway, good people, growth.

It was good. It was also wise to take that job because my girlfriend back at the time was still in school. so, Russell will is closer. Okay. And she’s going to be my bride of 34 years coming up here in September. good stuff.

ADAMS (08:41)

Wow, congratulations.

Yeah, that’s great. So I love that you had enough foresight early on to kind of have a decision matrix about how you were going to think about the different opportunities that you had. First of all, you had several opportunities. And then you said you really liked the people and you liked the fact that it was growing. Can you talk a little bit about the kind of work you did when you first started at Redcap and then your career trajectory?

BYERLY (09:05)

Yeah, so big picture is like a 34 and a half year career. So there was probably about four years of engineering, three years of plant management. Then I got into operations and supply chain for the remaining 27 years. And that was by that time when I went into operations, it was a director role and that grew into executive vice president role. So, but it started on the shop floor.

and I will emphasize this, the manufacturing opportunity I had, the seven years was my foundation. Those first five years are formidable and of any life. And there was a couple of things I’d call out in manufacturing. There’s kind of one offs, but I want the engineers out there, especially the young ones and the aspiring ones to hear this, because I think this first one really, I’d like for your…

your thoughts on it in terms of internships and things like this, but this is the deal. So they go, Phil, this is after I’ve gone through orientation and all this stuff, go, now we’re going to send you away for two weeks. We’re going to send you to this jacket plant, makes jackets. You’re going to walk in there and you’re going to apply for a job to be a sewing operator. So I had to walk in to people I didn’t know, apply for this job. And I mean, they knew who I was, but.

that probably didn’t help. So they have these dexterity tests, where you’re a pegboard where you’re picking up these pegs, moving them over here and doing this and doing that. And they’re like, okay, we got the job for you, you know, and they try to set people up for success. And so I was on this job called make shell, which in my vocabulary is make jacket, because it just came in pieces parts and didn’t look like a jacket. And when I was done with it, it was supposed to look like a jacket.

When you sew the sleeve into the neck hole, it doesn’t look like a jacket. But you learn, okay? And you learn not to sew out of thread because it’d take me an hour to rethread everything up in a safety stitch machine if you’ve ever seen one of those. And I had a supervisor and I’d be doing good, but for two weeks I worked with them, I clocked in, clocked out, did breaks with them.

didn’t smoke with them, but they did smoke, you know, back then before we did, but I had to go outside. it was, it was a experience and an experience that I carry with me today. And I’ll tell you why, because it, it made me appreciate their work, their hard work. And it was hard. I mean, I’d think I was doing great. And then all of a sudden they bring this bundle back to me and go, Hey, you need to go back through this, you know, and

So when I’m thinking I’m rocking, I’m really just like sending out bad work. And so it really made me appreciate the work ethic. It made me humble and appreciate them. And those are just two key attributes of an effective leader. You’ve got to have that. And as an industrial engineer, it helps build trust. And that is another, I mean, that’s an essential attribute for life, but it’s…

critical as an industrial engineer because our job messed with people’s money. And we’re setting production rates, we are making changes, putting in new equipment. And we’re saying now you could do more with less time or hey, we don’t need you because we put in this automation, but we’re growing companies. So now we got going to put you over here. So they’ve got to trust you, they’ve got to see you and appreciate your work.

And they’ve got to be confident that you understand them before you’re asking them to understand you. then when you don’t get it right, yes, you got to confess and fall on your sword and admit it and fix it. So that was all kind of taught me that little basis of those two weeks. Really, I carry it with me today.

And when I’m later in my executive roles and making capacity decisions and closing plants and opening plants, I always carried that human aspect of my decision and my proposals. It just stuck with me. I had a heart for them, had a heart for them in COVID. You you just, it’s great. And so I would say, you know, I know UT is big on internships.

I know you’re big part of that too and I believe in them. But I tell you what, when I was among the supply chain advisory board at Belmont and I keep telling these students and telling them is you don’t need a fancy desk job or anything like that to get your internship. Go, if you like distribution, logistics, go work in a warehouse.

If you like this, just find a hands-on dirty job and it’ll pay dividends for you. It’s just a great experience.

ADAMS (13:35)

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly and I, you in my own job, I started out in the research and development arm of things. So that’s a very different environment, even though I was working for a big manufacturing company. And then kind of similar to you, I met my boyfriend at the time and then we got engaged. He got a job at Oak Ridge National Lab. So we moved down here. I was up in Pittsburgh and I took a job in, on the manufacturing floor, really.

working in manufacturing and I would say that at the time I didn’t fully appreciate all the things that you just talked about but it became pretty apparent almost immediately thereafter that I had this sort of sense of empathy and understanding for the people but also for their work and I was now much better at proposing things because they would be more likely to be implemented because they through the lens of the people who actually had to do the work and then

a bit later in my career, what I didn’t realize was also just how much leadership appreciated that experience as well, because now all of a sudden, I’m getting promotion opportunities and things like that because I had had that operational experience that some of my other peers who maybe were just focused on the sort of more classical engineering roles and sit behind a desk and doing drawings or whatever were doing. So I found that to be hugely beneficial. And I also just really

loved it too. Yeah, I would always make sure, when I was visiting locations or visiting my teams in different locations, I was like, you know, let’s get out into the plant. Let’s just let’s just walk around and take a look. I people can’t see it, but I’ve got I’ve got my Alcoa hardhat just on my desk behind me as a reminder that I still like to.

onto the shop floors as often as I can and see the work being done. And I don’t know if you had this experience, but you know, once you get to a certain level of leadership, then they give you like what I always call the yellow brick road. They give you the guided tour where they paint the floor and they give you like where everything looks beautiful. And I would always say like, look, I promise I will stay safe. Get me off this yellow brick road.

BYERLY (15:27)

Absolutely. I go over there and I’m grabbing garments and looking at them. Yeah. The apparel industry, you’re like, you’re buying stuff, you know, it’s like, I’m looking at all the seams. Yeah. I think it gives you, I think what you’re talking about is it gives you depth. Yes. It gives you depth. and it’s just, you can’t explain it. And I, and when you’re young, you got the opportunity to do that. Yep. And you got summers, you got vacation breaks. Don’t,

you know, just use it and, and it’ll be with you forever. the other thing I was going to say, funny story is VP of sales, great guy, and he was in sales. So you just think of them, you know, they don’t know anything. Well, he, he worked in the warehouse and had his tow motor license. So whenever we in supply chain had a problem of getting something out, he would always go, Hey, if you need me, I’ll come, you know, I’ll help. He’s kind of joking cause we wouldn’t let him.

Right. But just that fun thing to say, hey, add a little humor in a tense situation. But it showed that he really kind of appreciated. And so, you never know when you can use some of those experiences to your advantage and just perspective. It’s great. So that was that was one big thing in manufacturing. And then there was just one thing, one of

plant managers told me and Redcap the way they worked the plants. It was a manufacturing company back then, know, kind of Henry Ford. We’re going to make, you know, maybe blue pants and light colored blue work shirts and maybe charcoal and that’s what you get. Okay. Now it’s different. You know, we’re doing everything trying to chase the demand. But, but back then it was a manufacturing and that was where their pipeline was because there’s all we had 22 plants.

about 300 operators per plant or up to 500 operators per plant. So sewing factory, the building looks really kind of small, but you go in and it’s a sea of people. And it’s really, it’s a great experience. But when I was out in Texas, there was a very seasoned manager. actually came from Wrangler and he, I was his engineer and we had this

dual kind of he had the accountability and authority, but I was a sidekick and we were the two, two leaders. So it was kind of a neat situation. But he looked at me and he goes, Phil, I just want you to know, this is something you need always now because there’s three kinds of people in this world. They go, really? Because yeah, because there’s problem solvers. There’s problem reporters. And there’s problem causers.

you want as many problem solvers as you can get. And your problem reporters, you try to convert them into problem solvers, but you can still handle a couple of problem reporters. And any problem causers you got, get rid of them. And that just, I mean, it applies to me and all my leadership roles and besides just manufacturing.

And I say this particularly for our audience and engineers, because engineers, if there’s one, you figure out whatever degree you get, the product and output is you’re gonna be a problem solver. I tried to Google how many problems we solved to get a degree, they didn’t give me an answer. They said lots, I think. anyway, we’re all problem solvers.

ADAMS (18:32)

That’s interesting.

BYERLY (18:39)

That is just a huge quality, no matter what you decide to go into. You’ve got that in your back pocket. think that’s why I’m just probably why I stayed with engineering. There’s just a stigma around them that they’re smart and good. And even if I’m not, can show them my diploma and say, you know, it’s kind of like the wizard of Oz, you know, I got a brain and everything, but.

But anyway, and I’ll put in a shameless plug for industrial systems engineering too. If you have a, if you’re a problem solver and you’re one of the few jobs where your job description is, you need to save three to five to seven times your salary and that’s your return on investment. You you’re pretty recession proof. You know, why would you fire the phone, the people and get rid of people that are actually reducing costs and that’s their job. So it’s a great career.

And anyway, that’s enough about that.

ADAMS (19:31)

Can you just talk a little bit about this transition to supply chain and sort of you spent, as you said, most of your career has been in operations and supply chain. Can you talk a little bit maybe about that transition and then how you’re using your industrial engineering skills in that role?

BYERLY (19:46)

Absolutely. think before I transitioned into operations, took from, because it was a director role, I had to first transition into being a people leader. And that’s a big choice because there is a quantum leap of shift of responsibilities into leadership when you decide to be a people leader.

So for example, when you’re a technical professional, like an engineer, or just any kind of individual contributor role, you know, the good thing about that, if you like control, you have it, because 80 % of your performance just depends on your mastering of skills, and then the sweat you put into it, your work ethic. And only 20 % relies kind of on your interpersonal skills, those soft skills. So,

you can do really well for yourself. But if you decide to jump over and say, hey, we got this supervisor role for you, which in manufacturing is kind of how it kind of would happen, then all of a sudden, it’s 50-50. You now only control 50%. The other 50 % depends on how others are going to do and perform. And you got to know that.

And then, so now I got to learn how to communicate and build these interpersonal skills if I’m going to be successful. And that’s a change in your job description. And then if you go into management, it even gets wider. It’s 30 % control and 70 % relying on others. And so now you’re going to have to figure out how to build the right team and all of that. And start thinking about business acumen and driving…

Those are all things now you got to think about that you didn’t when you’re sitting at your desk as an individual contributor. And if you go into top management, which ultimately I did, and I knew this relationship, so it’s now 20 % that I control with my, I still got to know my technical stuff. You’ve got to have that foundation to make the right decisions. And I’ll get into that because that’s what you’re asking about. But now 80 % of your effectiveness and your performance.

is relying on others and how you can communicate and drive them and lead a team and build orgs. that’s a total reverse. That’s a huge change. I went from 80-20 to 20-80. people that are aspiring to jump into leadership need to know that. They have to have their eyes wide open to that. And it’s easy to overlook it and be blinded because you’re looking at,

Here’s more power, here’s more pay, here’s more prestige. Yep, what’s not the light? And then they look at these leaders and a good leader, you know what they do? They make it look easy. They make it look easy, just like those darn golfers on the PGA Tour. They make it look so easy. And then I go out there and I just get humbled. It’s just like that. And it just takes a lot of time.

ADAMS (22:28)

Right.

BYERLY (22:42)

And it’s a huge shift. So I kind of joke with people and I go, they think they can stick an engineer in a microwave and hit the people leader button. know, instant comes out a nice people leader. And I’m here to tell everybody it’s a crockpot. It’s a crockpot process. It takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of pressure.

to become a good leader and make it look easy. So all of that, once you decide to jump that and then you wanna keep going up, you have to really, really own that and feel comfortable with it and embrace it. Cause if you don’t, you’re not gonna do well. And you’re not gonna be happy. You’ll hit a ceiling. And my HR partner for forever.

good friend, she would always tell me that she goes nine times out of ten people leaders they don’t

lose their job because of their technical ability and stuff like that. It’s always interpersonal skills. And I’m not saying that and trying to do this relationship to scare people to go into to not go into leadership. I’m actually saying this that hopefully embolden them and want them to hear the challenge and double down and want to start now. So that’s, that’s why I say that. But all of those things

as you go through into operations, as what you’re talking about, having a great, my first step in operations was then, you we were moving product and plants from the South East to Mexico and Honduras. We were building plants instead of three to 500 opera plants, we were building thousand people operator plants and cutting facilities. And it was the right thing to do. It was tough.

because of all my relationships. But then all of sudden I shifted and I had to make the decisions of when we cut this capacity off and when we transitioned. And that’s tough, but I knew Red Cat being good people. Those people that wanted to still work found work in other industries because we were respected. And so that made it easier. But all that knowledge and

and appreciation, knowing capacity and what it took to make a production schedule. I knew what it took to execute. So I had a good appreciation for what I was asking. When I say, hey, we need to shift 200 people over here and we’re gonna make all these dress shirts and you need to stop making work shirts because of a new customer demand. I knew what I was asking and they knew, well, unfortunately they knew I knew what I was asking. So I knew they could do it. And we just had a great team down in

Mexico and Honduras still do today. And that started in the mid 90s. So now look where we are 30 years later. And I’ve got really good friends and that those plants are run 100 % by people from Honduras and Mexico. There’s no ex-patients there or anything like that. And I’m really proud of just their careers. And so yeah, there was a lot of that. And I went down to Tampa and worked in a licensed sports group, which we did.

A lot of fun stuff we acquired Majestic who did on field jerseys for Major League Baseball. we did the championship tees, you you hold up for Super Bowls and postseason. And we outfitted all of those when the winning team won. And those were great years. And I relied on a lot of my teachings and learnings and kept growing from that perspective.

ADAMS (26:07)

All right, Phil, can you give us an example of when you had to use leadership skills?

BYERLY (26:10)

Yes, you know, I think, you know, using the leadership skill to solve a problem and specifically, one of the things that I always, my team always read me about it, but in my peers, but always called problems opportunities. we have an opportunity, you know, and it was just a simple mind shift, you know, that, hey,

we’re blessed to be working and blessed to have this problem. And it’s an opportunity for us to help somebody or grow or learn or do something better and improve. So that’s always been my mental perspective of this. And we were talking about my career. And so I was in Tampa as a director of operations and allocation and some things like that. And so then we had to move back up to Nashville in the workwear business. And I was going to become vice president of supply chain operations. And that’s where this

this opportunity came from. And we were talking about how you had to continue to grow your interpersonal skills. So one of the things being a VP, said, well, when I go to Nashville, one thing I’m going to do is I’m not going to get a sign on for the mainframe. I go, that’s for my people to do. And I’m not going to start, I’m just going to stay away from it because I like to tinker in there and learn. I go, that’s not my job anymore. So that was just, that was just a bonus. That’s not what I was going to talk about, but that is a bonus.

And so I just was learning, I got to grow in these other skills. And this opportunity that I’m talk about for growth was really about building my influence skills and building my business acumen skills and not only mine, but my teams and in the organization. So the situation was in regard to demand planning, which fell under my responsibility, very important aspect to our at once service model.

to have the right stuff at the right time. And we took it very important that it was very important throughout the organization. And demand planning is also forecasting just for those that aren’t in supply chain, just to make sure they understand what I’m talking about. And like I said, it’s very important just because of its whole ripple effect all the way through the supply chain, just from there on out. So I ask you a question, maybe you’ve done this, maybe you haven’t, but have you ever started to buy…

button to shirt, your blouse and started on the wrong button. Yeah. And how did that work?

ADAMS (28:14)

Yes, of course.

Yes, no, everything was misaligned, it didn’t fit right, was all, yeah, had to start over.

BYERLY (28:23)

But you didn’t know that at the beginning.

ADAMS (28:25)

Right,

exactly. Way too fast at the end.

BYERLY (28:28)

then you run out of button holes or something. And you’re like, I’m not going out in the public like this. So yeah, you redo it. Well, that’s the same way with a forecast and particularly in a public company. But if the forecast is not right in supply chain, everybody else in the supply chain from procurement to manufacturing to distribution, they could do everything right and we’ll look wrong. the other aspect of it is it was a primary driver.

an input to our financial forecast. And the financial forecast was then taken and sent to the F Corp. And then the F Corp, a publicly traded company would communicate to the street. So it literally was something that we wanted to make sure that we could go out in the public with just we didn’t want go out with a messed up shirt, so to speak. Right. And so that’s the way it kind of worked for us.

I mean, it was when the operational forecast would go up there and then they started, our executive team would start to adjust the revenue forecast to kind of fit a narrative, you know, what they wanted to communicate and make it fit for the public eye. That’s really where this opportunity for improvement came in. So let me tell you why, because the way it worked before I got there, so we had a great collaborative team. They’d get the operational unit forecast.

And my predecessor just said, hey, we’re in operations, we talk units, we don’t talk dollars, we talk units, we don’t manufacture dollars, we manufacture units. And so I respected that. But what would happen is, after we figured out our unit forecast and we tossed it into the finance silo, finance would do the voodoo they do and they would make these adjustments. And then all of a sudden, they’re high level adjustments.

not connected to anything operationally. And guess who would come and ask how to explain month invariances on inventory and volumes. I’m like, no, I can explain all this. And they go, well, that’s not what our finance thing said. And I said, well, we have a big disconnect. And it just wasn’t fair to my team. wasn’t fair to me. It was non-value added. So our simple solution was this. I’d get with the CFO and I said, let’s have one of your stakeholders

that’s over one of the brands being the brand’s collaborative operational demand meeting. And they could be a flying along and they could start growing and everything like that. And it really helped shape the output of those meetings. They’re collaborative with brand leaders, sales, merchandising. So there was already a good collaboration, but they would just kind of go, you know, and before they’d know it,

these changes would be multimillion dollar changes. And the timing was all off by having a finance person there was great. And then I challenged my team to, Hey, put dollars, dollarize your units. you’d be surprised at what they found. mean, all of sudden they say, Hey, we’re not going to do as me work shirts, but we’re going to do this outerwear in FR. Well, it doesn’t take a big shift change. You’re

Your units could be no change at all, but your forecast just went up $20 million. And they’re like, Rutt-Roe, we’re not gonna do that. And so there was just this good check and balance. And then more importantly, we had a stakeholder in finance, not to chunk it over in a silo, but to carry the message and talk to their folks. And we just had this good collaboration. And the word surprise and finance should never be ever.

Those should never be in there. Not a good thing. So there was a lot of less surprises and a lot less high level adjustments. There will still be some, but then we, our finance stakeholder would make sure that it was accounted for in supply adjustments and things like that. So then when they asked to do variances, it was a fair question and it was one we could answer that would make sense. And so,

From that, I grew, the team grew, they talked the dollars, they actually swung the pendulum a little bit too far and talked the dollars, which probably was my predecessor’s concern. So we’d have to swing back, you’re responsible for units and mix, and then you could figure out the dollars and see if it makes sense, literally, I guess. But it was a great, it was a win-win.

ADAMS (32:29)

Yeah, I love that example and this idea of making enabling stakeholders to sort of cross pollinate a little bit if you say so you brought this finance stakeholder into some important conversations with with your team so that they could understand what was going on and they knew what to take back. And I’m sure, know, eventually they probably even spoke occasionally and maybe ask questions and things like that. And I absolutely I mean, you know, think that that is that is a

BYERLY (32:51)

Absolutely.

ADAMS (32:55)

very underutilized but very powerful sort of leadership level lever, excuse me, is to instigate those kind of connections. And then the people who are actually doing the work will figure out what they need to do together to resolve some of these challenges, right? So I love this example. I’m curious about…

whether or not you were met with any resistance when you first initiated that idea, what kind of resistance you were met with and how you may have overcome some of the challenges associated with this new way of working.

BYERLY (33:24)

Yeah, like I said, my predecessor was dead set against it. But she was there no longer. so but there was this like, really, you know, and but I had to learn I asked why because there’s going to be some really valid reasons why. And it was kind of like, hey, we don’t want to watch dog in there. We won’t be as open. so that openness and candidness in those meetings, if they’re going to be working together was

it was really critical. So I actually removed myself from that meeting and I removed the other executive team from that meeting because I wanted them to really hash it out to your point, all those conversations, they do a lot of work and then they elevated up. And so I actually put in an executive meeting which gave my leader over the forecasting team an opportunity to grow her communication influence skills and learn how to be concise. Because when you’re talking to executives,

You gotta be concise and clear. And so I’d always, they joke with me, because there’s one forecaster, she goes, I just remember your advice. I go, what was that? goes, say it just like you did, but with less. And it just stuck with her. so it was just a great opportunity. And that was some of the friction was, they were just worried that they put a wet blanket on everything and finance, but they actually,

really then became good collaborators. And it wasn’t taking the message. They would go, well, you sure about that? And what does that look like from a timing perspective? And then, you this was a demand forecast. Then you had this whole, when is it actually gonna ship? Because that’s when the revenue counts. So there was that whole back process further downstream.

finance helped lead that along with supply chain. So it was great. It was a win-win and any resistance was quickly won over, you know, and what didn’t work, we just change and adapt. It’s no big deal. Just start.

ADAMS (35:11)

Exactly. And I also like this idea of you saying, myself and maybe some of my peers, might be hindering some of this collaboration at the slightly lower levels because people are looking at us for, can we talk about this? And people look at us, we making the right decisions or whatever, but just this idea that people in certain higher level roles can sometimes just have this.

quieting effect on the people doing the work. So I appreciate that you recognize that and were willing to pull yourself out of it. Did you find that your peers were also open to recognizing that they might be doing more harm than good in the meeting or did they need some convincing to come out?

BYERLY (35:48)

Yeah, they need a little convincing. Okay. You’re not going to tell CEO they can’t tell. But it was more about we would just start going back and enjoying the days when we used to do that job. You know what I mean? And then we would just look around the room and people are just looking at it, you know, and I’m like, ain’t good. And so it would be demoralizing. It just was, it was not fun for them if they were just going to watch us. Why, why would do the work if we’re going to do all that? And so it wasn’t our job.

ADAMS (35:53)

Right.

BYERLY (36:17)

So our job was to ask questions and listen and the right questions and challenge. And we could do that in a different kind of venue. And so it worked out. And on the finance side, was great too, because if the CF goes, what are you doing with this forecast? I go, I don’t know. You’ll have to talk to your stakeholder. That person was there and they own some of it. So talk to them. And I mean, I did know that.

I always had that card to play like they’re owners so they can’t really cast stones really. So yeah, it was a great, it was great.

ADAMS (36:56)

All right, Phil, as we wrap up, what advice do you have for engineers who are interested in pursuing leadership roles?

BYERLY (37:01)

I’ve got five words for them. The first three are go for it. And the second two are start now.

And I say that, I mean, I’d say the majority of the listeners are vols and hey, live up to the name, volunteer, lead a task, you know, if you’re working, lead a task group or a sub-task group, get on a project team, get on a charity event team, just get out there and work with people from other departments, work with and be a people leader, just start to facilitate. Better yet.

start getting out in the community. Join a civic club. When I was in Russellville, I missed a meeting and I became president. And there’s nonprofit boards. You get to have experience with not only other types of leaders, but other industries. In Nashville, I was surrounded by the health profession.

sports professions, there’s automotive professions, just great people in worlds that I really never touched me before. And that was meaningful. Youth sports, get involved and coach little kids. Your biggest leadership opportunities coaching the kids parents. I have a funny story about that, but I probably don’t have time to share. there is, know, those just get out there and learn.

ADAMS (38:10)

Yeah

BYERLY (38:18)

And then you’ll either say, I like leadership and you want to pursue it and try more. Or you go, my cup of tea. It’s not my personality. can’t thrive there. And that’s absolutely okay because just like me working the two weeks on the job, you get an appreciation for leaders.

and you get appreciation for the work they do and that makes you a better team member. If you don’t ever try it on and try to walk in their moccasins as they would say, you don’t appreciate them as much. And you can cast stones and say things and that’ll nip that in the bud pretty quick if you try it. So there’s no harm, there’s only learning. And here’s the simple truth.

To be a leader, people have to be willing to follow you. I mean, it’s just a truth. that people starts with you and yourself. If you don’t have the confidence and discipline to follow yourself,

please don’t expect anybody else to follow you. And that’s just start. So that’s why I’m saying start now. Start developing that confidence in yourself as a leader. I say that because it’s a crockpot process. So start now and then start throwing in these ingredients. They’re simple. They’re on every podcast. They’re just the same. And it’s because they’re true. So I’ve mentioned trustworthy.

You got to be trustworthy to yourself first and foremost, self-deceit is a big deal. But you got to be trustworthy to others. And then you just got to put in the sweat. You got to work. You got to show up every day, give it your best effort. When I coached Little League, I wouldn’t get mad at players for anything unless they didn’t show effort. And if they made a hustle mistake, I applauded them.

It’s the same way that I carry in my work. And those top two that I mentioned, trustworthy and work ethic. I might’ve inherited you on my team, but I definitely wouldn’t have hired you on my team. And I won’t keep you on my team if you don’t have those two. Those are just, I’m a very patient person, but I’m very impatient about trust and impatient about work attitude. But the other thing is like we said, just to build confidence, know yourself. And you can do that by

all the great personality tests and courses, all the strengths and affirm the leader and believer in strength-based leadership. Do it on your own dime if you have to. Invest in yourself, you’re worth it, okay? Don’t wait for anybody else. It doesn’t cost much. And then hopefully on the company’s dime, you could do other things because they think you’re a leader and they wanna invest in you. Practice humility.

That’s a simple one. And then just work on communication. All that interpersonal skill that I mentioned, that if you really, when your job changes, that’s gonna be your job. And you just gotta learn to be concise in your communication. And a trick I learned or advice I learned is if you could always assume positive intent when people are talking to you, even if they’re yelling at you, if you can cut out all the noise,

and the way they’re saying it and go, hey, there’s something in here that they’re coming to talk to me for a reason. What is it? And assume it’s positive. It really changes your whole mindset. It makes you not defensive, which that means you’re not gonna escalate your voice and tone. And it just helps you be a better listener. And I think communication is critical.

you know, life’s about relationships and really communication is the lifeblood of that. And so without communication in life, yeah, it’s a lifelong pursuit. I can’t communicate that well. I’ve been told many a times and, you know, they ask if I have a heart, I tell them I do, but no, but it, but it’s a big deal. So those, those are the big things. And then last for me personally, I have to

I have to say this because it is just who I am, is that all the good and positive leadership impact I’ve had in my career and I hope to have for the remainder of my life is due to my relationship with Jesus Christ. He’s my rock, He’s my Lord and Savior. He’s my source of all that confidence that we’re talking about. He’s my source of encouraging positive energy. He’ll walk with me in the good and the bad and ugly and you leadership, don’t get to make, you have to make decisions that aren’t popular. And when you do that, you can feel really lonely. And he was always there for me. So I had to share that. And you asked about favorite books. And one of my favorite books is the Book of Proverbs, which was over 3000 years ago written. And the fact that I’m talking about it is credibility in itself.

I don’t know if you know who Les Steckle is, but Les Steckle was offensive coordinator for the Titans. They went to the Super Bowl and he came up one yard short of winning it. And he spoke to me and a group of men and he goes, hey, about this book of Proverbs, which I already loved it by then. But then he reminded me, you know, there’s 31 chapters. That means there’s one for every day of the month. So you could pick today and

Correspond it with a chapter. And I guarantee you there’s nuggets in there that will encourage you, give you wisdom on emotional intelligence. And like today’s, what spoke to me was anxiety weighs down the heart and the kind word cheers it up. So I will end with a cheerful note. I’m gonna tell you engineers when it comes to leadership, you got it, you’re problem solvers, just go for it, start now.

ADAMS (43:33)

Phil, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.

BYERLY (43:36)

My pleasure. I enjoyed the talk and I look forward to future conversations with you.