MEL #039 | From Local Engineer to Cross-Cultural Builder through Proximity and Empathy with Paulo Novaes

NOVAES (00:00)

Today better than yesterday, tomorrow better than today. I really believe that is the real beauty of life. It’s a never ending journey. So embrace the beginner’s mindset. There’s always something to learn.

ADAMS (00:36)

In this episode, I speak with Paulo Novaes, Chief Technology Officer at Aperam South America. Paulo grew up around engineering through his father, loved math and lab work, and ultimately chose metallurgy and materials engineering. He faced rejections to elite academies, persisted and launched a career in specialty steel, moving from shop floor engineer to multi-site leader. In our leadership segment, Paulo discusses his approach to leading cross-border teams.

He rejected fast top-down rollouts in favor of collaborative on-site people-first approaches. He built buy-in by traveling to each site, listening deeply, and co-creating roadmaps with local teams. Paulo’s advice to aspiring engineering leaders, practice a beginner’s mindset, get comfortable acting with incomplete information, and prioritize soft skills, purpose, belonging, and self-care. The goal is sustained team performance and human-centered leadership. 

Explore the full episode summary, including guest bio, key takeaways, transcript, and recommended resources in the show notes at drangeliqueadams.com slash podcast. Without further delay, here is my conversation with Paulo Novaes.

ADAMS (01:38)

Hi, Paulo, welcome to Mastering Engineering Leadership.

NOVAES

Hi, Angelique. Thank you very much for the invitation.

ADAMS

I’m thrilled to have you here. Can you start by telling us how you got into engineering as a career path?

Indeed. This is really interesting in a sense that the only thing we know is that there will be changes in our journey. So what we think it will be a straight shot from point A to B, then turns into a windy adventure with challenges discovered and even surprises. Since from the young age, I was absolutely convinced that I was going to be an engineer, to be honest with you. And why that? Very simple, my father is also an engineer. So I was always exposed to that environment. I listened to him talking to my mother, visiting his workplace. And plus, I just love a subject like math.

geometry, chemistry, also getting hands on the lab, on lab classes. So they really make me curious about making what we figure out how things could be done and how can you do things. But then, adolescence hit, you know, that time of fighting, trying to find yourself and even being very honest, a little rebellion moment. And then suddenly I decided to join the military.

So after elementary school, I applied for high schools, leading to army, Navy and Air Force. And looking back that time, I got saved was a complete disaster. How so? Yeah, I didn’t get into any of them. It’s kind in Brazil have applied for that. So at least it was my first real slap into the face.

because before I thought I was a pretty good student, maybe even top notch in my local school, but when I faced the national competition, my old achievements were enough, but just not enough, like that. So that’s why it happened at that moment. So I went back to high school and I dedicate myself to improving myself in every subject and my goal was very clear, reapply.

this time not just for the military academy, but also to the Brazil most prestigious engineering universities like the Army Engineering Institute, IME, and also the Aeronautics Institute of Technology, IPA. And again, as you can probably guess, it was another setback. I got rejected again. It’s part of life. But I don’t give up easily. The next year I tried again.

And while I didn’t get into IPA or IME, at least my persistence paid off. I was highly qualified for the Navy Academy and also for the Federal Reverse of Rio de Janeiro, UFRG, which is another highly respected engineering school with a great reputation. But now it’s the funny part of the story. And I frequently joke with…

with everyone that my engineering career is all thanks to Rock and Roll. Oh, okay. Let me explain. 

ADAMS

Yeah, I’m excited to hear how this goes. 

NOVAES

So after passing through the tough qualification process for the Navy Academy, the night before the enrollment, I took a decision. I decided that I would not join any more than Navy. And the reason why is that at the exact time

The iconic Rock in Rio festival was happening in Brazil. Oh, okay. So it was a huge event back then. So joining the NAV Academy means missing out this, at least for me at that time, once in a lifetime kind of music, sarvaganza, if I could say like that. It was in 1991. So the festival was making history.

with the first ever performance in the view of legendary bands like Guns N’ Roses, Faith No More, I couldn’t resist that. It’s amazing. So I quit the decision to join Navy and I joined the university for engineering. So given my strong performance and qualifications in FRG, I got the scholarship from the school.

to dive myself in the world of fractals, working for the Applied and Pure Math Lab. And I’m pretty proud that the money from the scholarship allowed me to buy my first musical instrument ever, a drum set. wow. Okay, drum set. Yeah, but however, after some period of time and being very honest, I’m not a good drummer at all. Okay. I realized that my…

used is much more a hobby than a career. So that’s why I took all my focus towards metallurgy and materials engineering, which is a field that I totally captivated in a way that is incredible possibilities as a metallurgist. It’s a kind of combining different elements to create new products as a toolie alchemist, turning raw materials into something completely new. So it was…

unresistible to me. So more or less, all these ups and downs, the tools, challenges, and that music sensation moment was what ultimately shaped my journey as to become an engineer.

ADAMS

Yeah, that’s great. And you, I mean, you’ve been in the metallurgy business, both on the technical side and your business side and and leadership side for many years. Can you talk a little bit about, after you left school, what you’ve done with your degree and how your career has gone so far?

NOVAES

My professional career, I took it off in 1996, right after graduating myself. And I joined the company, I especially still produce a company and I started, of course, as an engineer. I wanted a lot to put my knowledge to work.

So I started as a process control engineer overseeing and making production process, trying to make it better. And then it was really a shock because I became with a lot of, how can I say, a lot of technical knowledge, but no experience at all. So since the beginning, I tried to go to the shop floor and I have amazing learning moments with the operators on the field, learning how the things really happen.

how to operate these and that. So it was very, very inspiring for me at the moment. So later I moved to a role as a product metallurgist where I focus on the material properties, the use of these two products, the application on the market. And then at that time I got my leader at that moment was an ex-engineer, an ex-specialist, a doctor of science.

kind of realized that I could have some leadership skills and he started challenging me. Oh, how do you ever thought about being a leader here someday he put me in his role when he was out on vacation. And then I realized that was

Pretty nice, this experience. So in 2003, I got the opportunity to have my first leadership position in a production line. It was a big milestone in my career. then since then, I have been lucky enough to serve in various leadership roles and which then bring a new challenge and chance to grow and to help.

the industry could change over the years. So it was a beautiful journey since then.

ADAMS

And I know you also decided to go back and get an executive MBA along the way. Can you talk a little bit about your decision to do that?

NOVAES

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately, in our engineering graduation school, at least at that moment, we are more focused on the technical skills.

And sometimes we forget or we don’t pay too much attention to the business, not only business, but also the software skills, which is very important at the end. I used to joke with my sister who is a psychologist, ⁓ psychology is not important. And then today I always tell her, I regret so much that I hadn’t the opportunity to study that at that moment because as an engineer we’re much more

are used to work with machines, but at the end machines are machines. What matter the most are people. So that’s why I decided to go back to school and try to improve my, not only my business ⁓ skills, but also my soft skills. That’s why the idea to do MBA because it’s also a very broad, it gives a very broad perspective about this. And so that’s the idea. And also the point that… ⁓

We have to keep ourselves every time learning. If you stop and say, okay, I know everything. Sorry, you are dead.

ADAMS

I’m curious about your persistence. You you said you applied a couple of different times and you didn’t get in, but you decided to keep applying to these different schools. And I’m just curious, like what it is about you that had you say, I’m going to keep trying. I’m not going to let this hold me back. Can you talk a little bit about just what, what is it that made you can keep going.

NOVAES

So it’s interesting because at that moment, at that age, 17, 18, it’s really a flood of emotions everywhere. So for sure, I was really, really disappointed, really, really disappointed, even though because my father graduated in 98, the Aeronautics Technology Institute. So I kind of, want to be there too and so on and so on.

But these kinds of setbacks also, I prefer to take it as a fuel instead of only something that could push me back. So the idea was, okay, I will prove myself that I can do something. And then of course, I have to say that I had up 10 dollars at that moment, it was easy at all. But on the other hand, this approach or this mindset,

make me grow at the end. So at the end of those two years trying, trying, was a completely different person than I was two years before. So it really, really, really makes a difference in all my life because I take it with me to be persistent, to be there, to try, fail, try again, fail, try again. And I think it’s also related to my martial arts background.

I practiced martial arts for more than 13 years. So this is part of the philosophy. Keep going, keep pushing, keep insisting. Sometimes you’re not perfect, but do your best,

ADAMS

All right, Paulo, can you give us an example of how you use leadership skills in your work?

NOVAES

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity to approach this subject. I’d like first to demystify what leadership is all about, at least from my perspective and personal perspective. I like some great authors like James Hunter and Simon Sinek when they say or explain that the leader should serve your team. But today,

What we see is the opposite. You see often leaders expecting their teams to save them instead. Okay, like that you can, you might get big results for sure with this approach, but my opinion is that you never create long-term growth that nor lasting success. So to really build a sustainable leadership, you’ve got to be committed to work for your team, to work with your team.

giving them all the support available they need to exceed. You should help your members to shine on the stage instead of me. So it’s more like the approach I try to get. So this could sound a little bit weird or even naive, especially today that we are in everyone’s ego, going bigger and bigger. This is what I learned from…

on this almost 30 years on the spot. And I try to do exactly the opposite. I always make sure to give credit for the success and the efforts and results for my team. And when something gets wrong, which is normal, because only people who try new things can make mistakes, I take my position and my mission to protect them.

So this kind of support over time builds a safe space where people feel comfortable and free to taking risks and always trying to getting better. So under this perspective, I like a lot to be near my team. The proximity for me is one of the key leadership that I practice the most in every challenging phase. Just to give you an example.

We recently kicked off a company-wide program for boost performance, which means working with different production sites in countries like France, Brazil, and even in the US. And my team and I, we were charged with talking to all the heads of sites and even more importantly, with their team members to do reviews and create customized improvement plans.

In a situation like this, it’s very tricky. A top-down approach simply could be very easy and very fast. We all know that. could be very quick to do so, but I was convinced, and I’m convinced that this kind of approach wouldn’t get a sustainable buy-in from the local teams of fights, and of course, wouldn’t lead to a lasting result. So from day one, we tried to create a collaborative approach.

We work at hand in hand with local teams to figure out their specific priorities together with them and to co-create their own roadmaps for each site. So of course, this kind of approach in the beginning, there are their own barriers, it isn’t always smooth, but the magic really starts when the local teams realize that we are there, really there to support them and to add real value.

And but this shift only happens through really listening, being truly interested in their ideas, having deep empathy for their unique situations and challenging and try to find out an equilibrium between challenging them and supporting them. And very important to say that a huge part of the success was also from our side to make the effort to be on site.

on each side. we travel each side. Having meetings on site and seeing the real situation, like being on the spot, being on the factory floor, or as the Japanese like to say on the Gamba. It was absolutely essential. The local people really appreciated us being there, just to hear their concerns, but to actively build solutions for their problems together.

And also being on site allowed us to not only understand their needs, but also to help them fight for the resource they required. So this is a very interesting lesson that we took from that. Another interesting example was when we implemented a big lean program across our Brazilian sites. And for this initiative we came up

we teamed up with a well-known external consulting firm. course, we needed to do an external, at that time, external support from that. And I was nominated to program manager. Right from the start, I had the real belief that the long-term success of a program like that depended on the involvement of our own people, of course, with the support of the and expertise of the external consulting. So,

By disbelief, I had to have a lot of discussions and negotiations with the management of the company, but eventually I convinced them to assign some of our talents to be the internal leaders or what you call at that time the change agents for the program. And of course, after that, I had another step to convince and persuade them to step away from their regular jobs and

to take the risk of me to join the program. But my strategy was since the beginning, of course, beyond the company’s overall improvement goal that we should pursue, I’d like also that that program would be also a development opportunity to those talents, kind of a real career booster or career acceleration program. So at the end to be making a ⁓

a long story short, the lean program was a real success. We were able to increase around 20 % the productivity across the Brazilian sites. And plus for me, the most important from my side is that 90 % of those talented guys that were, and girls that were with me in the program got promoted when they got back from business units. So I think this is for me, one of my…

happiest moments during my life, my professional life.

ADAMS

Yeah, that’s great. Well, congratulations. these are two excellent examples and maybe we can give our audience a little bit more detail. in your first example, just so everybody, so I know you personally, we worked together before, so I can give a little bit of just more context about, so you’re located in Brazil and what you were talking

NOVAES

What you were talking about was leading an initiative across multiple sites that are all over the world. And you talked about how important it was to build relationships with people at the different sites and really show that in order to get their buy-in to what you were trying to implement, really establishing relationships, deep empathy is what you mentioned. And you also talked about the importance of of physically going and seeing them. And I think that that’s just really important. It’s actually something that actually through working with you, when we had a chance to work together that I learned just how important physically showing up and talking to people and being willing to walk the shop room floor, shake hands with people at all levels of the organization, how much of an impact that can actually have. Sometimes just one visit when you kick things off can really make such a huge impact. I’m sure it was a lot for you, right? You have to go to all these places and take your own personal time you’re away from the office, you’re away from your family,

How did you uncover the importance of doing that just throughout your own professional journey?

First, I’m simply agree with you on you have to be there. You have to be there. It’s different. mean, OK, we have all the facilities of double technology to do virtual meetings everywhere at the time, which is very good too, of course. But it’s not enough.

You have to be on the shop floor to see by yourself, to see people, to feel, to hear, to listen to the people As I told before I became a leader, I was an engineer on the shop floor. And then since the beginning, my interest of being on the field,

to learn things with the shop floor guys, helped me a lot afterwards when I took the leadership position. I realized that I built before a relationship with them before being their leader. So it makes all the difference. since then, got, this is a good lesson learned. Let’s take it forever. So since then,

it’s impossible to be every day, every time, but as much as I can, I go. Because it really makes the difference. guys feel, or the girls feel themselves important when you are there, when listen to them, and so on. But the tricky part is that you have to be really, really deaf. Because they know when you are only physically there.

ADAMS

Yeah.

Really good point. This is the difference and the detail that makes the difference. How do you actually demonstrate that? How do you personally kind of demonstrate, I’m actually really here with you. I’m not, yes, I’m here physically, but I’m really paying attention. I’m really here to listen. What are some of the things that you do to let people know that? 

NOVAES

Yeah, this is a kind of preparation. Before that, I block all my agenda. I block all my agenda to avoid the temptation to do something quick enough or something like this. So I try to block the agenda at least one hour before one hour after because at that moment is not my time schedule is their time schedule. So even if we arrange one hour, I try to free up one hour before one hour afterwards. Now I that okay, if you take more time, you take more time and it’s It’s good. And what I normally do is to turn off my phone, also to avoid kind of when they are talking, let me take it. No, no, no, no. So I try to really dedicate all my energy, all my attention, all my time to them. It’s difficult to explain, but you know when something is really involved with them, it’s really involved on the point. I try to prepare myself beforehand to knowing better what are the context before, to have some questions at the moment. And I try to put myself

in the same perspective of them because when I’m there, okay, I’m a leader by formality, but I try to be a human being like him or like her because at the end it’s what really we are. We are people. Maybe I’m at that moment in this or that position, but it doesn’t define me. What define me is what I am or who I am. So that’s kind of approach that I try to.

to pay attention to that, to prepare, to be really, really in a mindfulness state at the moment that I am with them.

ADAMS

Yeah. I think that’s great. I also know, at least for me, it is extremely important. I make the commitment. It’s also exhausting sometimes, particularly when you travel. So you travel to somebody, in a different time zone and you spend the beginning of the day and you’re actively focused and you’re actively paying attention all day long. And then of course, sometimes they want to have dinner with you afterwards. So, you know, sometimes it can be really, really intense, but very necessary. how do you manage your energy levels when you’re in those intense bursts of focus like that, when you’re traveling all around and giving your full attention because you know it’s so important. How do you manage your own energy level?

NOVAES

What I do and I really took time to realize that is to take care of yourself before anyone else. I took time to realize that I try to take care of the others before taking care of me. But again, it doesn’t

I do a lot of exercises, I try to read as much as I could, some things that relax. I love music. I take time to travel to go to shows or festivals or whatever. So this is what, and of course, having good time with my family when I have them, focused on them.

These are the things that recharge my battery. But of course, everyone has his own interests, something that can refresh themselves. So the most important thing is that to keep up this level of energy, have to take care of yourself. And I really take it seriously, because I’ve learned from the past. I had some bad experience in the past trying to take care of the others without taking care of me. And it was a mess.

ADAMS

Paulo, you more than any other guests that I’ve had so far are in a position to talk about building team, connecting with people across cultures, across borders, because you…

work in a global organization and have leadership roles that require you to interact. do you think it’s really exactly the same in terms of how you build teams, how you connect with people, or do you find that you apply different tactics when you are, for example, working with people in France or working with people in Belgium or versus Brazil versus US, et cetera?

NOVAES

Absolutely.

It’s really a challenge because the cultural aspects are completely different across the different countries.

So what I try to do is first to observe as much as I can. This is the first time to learn from what could work, what could not work. And the start step by step to test how far can I go? Because I can’t treat…

everybody as I treat Brazilian guys So first thing is that I try to observe, go step by step to test, to test. And again, some soft skills like activity, listening empathy, they help you a lot on the journey.

But ⁓ it’s also a moment of learning which for me is very good. I like a lot to work with the concept that if I can help the business or a project with my previous knowledge, but at the same time I can learn from that, for me it’s the best of both worlds. So it’s really exciting to work with a different culture.

because I can learn a lot from them and I believe they can learn a lot from exchanging with me. But for sure, for sure, you have to pay attention to these small details

ADAMS

Well, thank you for sharing that. It’s a challenge, as you said, and I appreciate what you said about one, like expect there to be differences, recognize that each of us is from a specific culture. We have a specific way of doing things and recognizing that when you meet people from other places, they could be different. That means you’ve got to turn on your powers of observation even more.

listen, learn, and then, I love what you said about testing. So you may try some things to try to make them feel more comfortable, and then you can see, okay, are they responding to that? Did I go too far? Am I too open with them? And they’re more reserved, et cetera.

The goal is the relationship. So if that means that I have to behave a little differently than my normal sort of default mode in order to extend myself towards you, that’s what the leader should do.

So, have to try to find a common position.

And the beauty lies on that because suppose everybody was the same. It would be very boring. Let’s agree on that.

We will work cross borders more and more. So this is the reality, you can’t escape from that. So if you accept that since from the beginning that that is not one truth, it’s okay, you can open up your mind and then you learn a lot.

ADAMS (27:34)

All right, Paulo, as we wrap up, what advice do you have for engineers who are interested in pursuing leadership roles? First, what I like a lot is the beginner’s mindset approach, or in Japanese, shoshin.

It’s really a form of philosophy that encourages us to follow the continuous learning approach of path. And that could open doors to endless possibilities. the most interesting thing is that the principle is not confined to specific disciplines, but you can apply across all life facets.

As I told before, I’ve been practicing martial arts for more than 30 years and this approach allows me to improve my skills every single day. So even in my day to day life routine, including work, but also in my personal life. As I like to say, and normally say, often say to the guys and girls, and today better than yesterday, tomorrow better than today. I really believe that is the real beauty of life. It’s a never ending journey. So embrace.

embrace the beginner’s mindset. There’s always something to learn. Just to give an example, today I’m struggling with AI. I’m not a digital guy. I’ve learned, I was born in the 70s, so I’m an analog man. Now I think it’s, I’m astonished about the opportunities that AI can have. So I’m trying to learn this and that and it’s amazing. It’s amazing. So this kind of mindset, you always can learn. You always can learn.

Another interesting point is that I’m sorry to say you have to embrace this conformity. It’s an increasingly complex and unpredictable work and we are more and more expected to navigate on challenges with incomplete information and limited resources. The traditional approach of having all data, all the resources before making the decision, it’s completely over.

So we as a leader, must cultivate what I call the comfort within discomfort. Understanding that this ambiguity is not a barrier, but an opportunity to innovate. And of course, this involves developing an agile mindset, learning to make decisions with the best available information you have. So it’s about doing your best with what you have rather than waiting.

for ideal conditions that may never materialize. But the good news is that you can develop that. It’s all about training. It’s for me, it’s related to the first one, the beginning mindset. If you are open to learn, you will be able to embrace this comfort as a growth catalyst.

Maybe another one that is very important that I also mentioned in the first part is the prioritize soft skills development. Because during my career, what I really realized that the distance of leadership lies in human connection and the ability to inspire them, to empower them. So of course, technical expertise is of course is really valuable.

But the two differentiators are soft skills. Soft skills like communication, active listening, empathy, emotional intelligence, effective problem solving. These are really ⁓ key or fundamental to really build a strong relationship and to foster a team environment at the end. Unfortunately, as I told before, these skills are

often overlooked in traditional education settings. But today’s are key to a collaborative work landscape. But again, you can train yourself so the good news is that you can develop that. You can through continuous learning, self-awareness, you can improve the soft skills and be able to build that trust.

and an environment that we can achieve the collective goals.

Your impact as a leader is completely related to the strength and engagement of our team. So you have to build, you have to create the

the opportunity and the environment to have a high performance team. This involves of course, placing the team members strategically in the right roles according to their capabilities, abilities and behavioral strength. But beyond this more competence approach, it’s very important to cultivate an environment where the members feel

part of it, that they are part of the sense of belonging. The sense of purpose, what’s the purpose of what I do because Simon says, nobody more ⁓ buy what you do, they buy why you do what you do. So the purpose is very important, it’s very powerful to keep the team over performing. And for me, the most important of all,

you have to have showed they are giving enjoyment in their work, they are having fun. This is something that I take a lot, take care of a lot because the era of simply selling hours, it’s over. If you only are there to sell hours, sorry, you are not going to overperform. So what really drives a key driver for excellence are passion, engagement.

So have fun, have fun and let your team feel the same.

And last but not least, as you anticipate, take care of yourself. To effectively lead others, you must

first being a state of optimal well-being. Why? Because leadership is demanding. There are constant pressure to outperform and this can lead you to a burnout. So if you don’t prioritize self-care, which is not a luxury anymore, it’s a necessity, you will not be able to support all this and you will not be able to be a

effective leader or even our human being. So what I could say, try to find out something that refresh your mind, body or even your spirit. Whatever it could be, engage in a regular exercise, practice mindfulness, meditation, music, finding religion or spiritual practice, or even exploring your writing skills. All of these activities could are crucial to keep you in your best performance, in your best version of yourself.

ADAMS

Paulo, thank you so much for your insights. 

NOVAES

Thank you for the opportunity.