MEL #060 | From Crime Lab Intern to Operations Leader through Purpose-Driven Problem Solving with Dr. Mandy Youker

YOUKER (00:00)

Obviously your technical skills are gonna get you your degree. They’re gonna likely land you your first job, maybe your second job, like maybe even your third job. However, it’s really the soft skills or as one of my favorite professors from the University of Chicago, a strategic lab leadership program, the essential skills that will really get you into the leadership pathway.

ADAMS(00:46)

In this episode, I speak with Dr. Mandy Youker Operations Officer for the Advanced Energy Technologies Directorate at Argonne National Lab. Mandy shares how her interest in chemistry began in high school and deepened through hands-on experiences like working in a crime lab. She discovered early on that she loved solving problems, especially when she could see the real-world impact of her work.

Her career evolved through a PhD, national lab research, and eventually into leadership roles where she could combine technical expertise with broader organizational impact.

In our leadership segment, Mandy describes how small leadership actions can create meaningful change using an example of introducing an improv style icebreaker in a strategy meeting. Despite mixed feedback, she moved forward because she had seen the benefits before. The result was a more open, collaborative environment where people engaged more fully and built stronger connections.

Mandy’s advice for aspiring STEM leaders? Recognize that technical skills will open doors, but essential skills like communication, trust building, and teamwork are what sustain and grow a leadership career. She highlights the importance of making people feel valued and appreciated through small but intentional actions.Ultimately, leadership is about creating an environment where people feel heard, supported, and motivated to contribute.

Explore the full episode summary, including guest bio, key takeaways, transcript, and recommended resources in the show notes at drangeliqueadams.com slash podcast. Without further delay, here is my conversation with Dr. Mandy Youker.

ADAMS (02:20)

Hi Mandy, welcome to Mastering Engineering Leadership.

YOUKER (02:22)

Hey, Angelique Thanks so much for having me today.

ADAMS (02:25)

I am thrilled to have you here. Can you start by telling us how you got into STEM as a career path?

YOUKER (02:30)

Sure. So in high school, I really enjoyed chemistry. It was fun. I had some great teachers. It came easy to me. It made sense. So I really just decided, you know what, I’m going to major it in college. And that’s what I did. However, once I got into deeper levels of chemistry, so organic chemistry, physical chemistry,

You know, going from learning your periodic table and calculating the number of moles to those complex concepts was no easy feat. But I continued to work at it. And as an undergrad, I actually had the opportunity to intern at a crime lab, the DuPage County Crime Lab. So local crime lab. And that was a really, really cool, impactful experience for me where I learned three important things. Number one, I like to solve problems. In this case, it was pretty fun problems to solve.

You know, identifying the drug, finding the fingerprints or solving a crime by analyzing the DNA. However, I wanted some more independence. I wanted an ability to kind of think on my own as opposed to just following a standard operating procedure, which is what I was doing a lot of. And then I was also learned that I’m very interested in applied work. I want to be able to see the impact of the science immediately. I want to be able to make that connection, tell that story. And you know, the,

lower ⁓ technology readiness levels, the basic R &D. I understand that’s necessary, but that’s not what excited me. So I knew that I wanted to go on and get my PhD that I thought would give me some independence. And ⁓ it sure did. I went on to graduate school at Loyola University in Chicago. It was on the lakefront, beautiful, beautiful campus. And I struggled with trying to find a project. So you meet with multiple

professors and you kind of talk about what projects are going on in their lab, really nothing seemed to spark my interest. So together with an inorganic professor, inorganic chemistry and biochemistry professor, we built a new idea, a new project. And at the time I had a deep personal interest in diabetes. So my dad was diagnosed with diabetes in his 30s, type 1 diabetes. And then my brother,

in his early 20s, just a couple of years prior to me starting graduate school. So I had this interest and I was like, well, what can we do with this? So we developed a project that looked at creating vanadium complexes, vanadium, a transition metal that we thought could potentially inhibit an enzyme in the insulin signaling pathway, protein, pyroxene, phosphatase 1B that was thought to be overactive. So if we could inhibit this, this potentially could be used to help, you know, ultimately

build the medication for diabetes. And, you know, had a lot of fun with that, learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes, you know, kind of learned the lesson that it’s going to take at least three times to work. And that’s okay. So, you know, learned, learned that that failure is part of the game, but it’s how you recover and how you learn from that that’s important. So during my final year of grad school, I had the opportunity to come to Argonne National Lab as a research aid.

So one of my professors, he would come here over the summers and he worked in the chemistry group. And then one of his former students was actually a chemist, a scientist working here. And she reached out and said, you know what, we need some summer help. Do you have any, but, and again, I was in my last year. So, you know, my professor could have said, no, maybe he needs to finish, but he let me go and the project was going to be working with another transition metal, in this case, molybdenum, but it was molybdenum-99.

So this was a radioactive isotope. And I don’t know about other folks, but when I took general chemistry in high school and college, you kind of skip over the radioactive stuff because nobody works with that. So I definitely spent some time learning how to better control contamination, not having as many contamination events, but really had a great time and ⁓ was able to finish my PhD and then got hired on at Argonne as a postdoc.

where I was a postdoc for a little less than a year. Then I moved on to a staff chemist and then ultimately a manager or a group leader as we call it here at Argonne of the radiochemistry group. And I wanna reinforce here some of the things that I knew that I want. So, number one, I was interested in solving problems. So, here I was working on a very impactful project. So, Melindin of 99, it’s actually its daughter Decade product, Technetium 99M.

and it’s used in 80 % of all diagnostic nuclear medicine procedures. And the problem at the time was we didn’t have any US suppliers and there was a shortage. So in that timeframe, we were trying to help US companies trying to produce this isotope. And it became a bit even more impactful for me because my niece was born in 2017 and she was born with spina bifida, which is basically her spine was open at birth.

And with that comes a multitude of complications, one of which is potentially problems with her kidneys. And at six months old, she actually had to get a technetium 99 on scan. And I had shared this at a research conference, a conference on Molly 99. And one of the individuals from the FDA came up to me and said, my goodness, I had no idea that we were doing this on children so young. And it was just so impactful because that…

that scan that she got, thankfully everything was okay, but it really just made that direct connection. And again, I like to be able to have that personal connection, applied work, solving problems here. We’re trying to get rid of the shortage so people can get the scans and the diagnostics that they need. And then also having some independence to kind of try this or try that, not necessarily having to follow some standard operating procedure.

So really I spent 10 years working on this project and we were able to overcome some of those shortages. And it was after those 10 years that an opportunity came up that really sparked my interest and it was gonna be a big pivot for me. So here I was, know, a lab chemist mixing chemicals, spreading some chem contamination at times. And I was gonna move to the operations side of the lab.

which I’m not sure how it is so much at universities, but in the national labs, know, research and operations, they often think that one is against the other. The reality is having worked on both sides that we’re really just trying to help each other. But, and the reason that this opportunity was so interesting to me was because of the individual who’s leading this project. So this individual was someone that I had met several years prior at a supervisor bootcamp. So.

Argonne would offer this bootcamp class to either individuals interested in leadership opportunities or very early managers. And you get an opportunity to meet people across the laboratory, ask them questions. And in this case, this individual worked in our facilities division. And we had just moved to a new building, but it was a new old building that didn’t have running water in our laboratory. And as a chemist, running water’s

ADAMS (09:12)

I I need that, right? Yeah.

YOUKER (09:14)

So we spent several months trying to get running water. So, you when he said this, I raised my hand and I said, is there any way you can get us running water? I mean, that would be really helpful. And even a week we had running water. But for me, that was, again, impactful. Show me that this individual gets things done. I want to work with this kind of person. And he, at the time, was starting a project looking at, or really a program.

looking at improving our work planning and control, which is really a subset of the way we do safety. And it basically involves identifying hazards, making sure that you have the appropriate controls in place, that you have the right conversations with subject matter experts, so the experiments can go as safely as planned. And I did that for about five years. Again, solving problems in a different way, trying to help researchers be as safe as possible.

⁓ learning about different projects across the lab. So still applied projects, but you know, some of that basic R &D as well. And, you know, having independence again, in the sense that this was the first time this program started. So I really could take it any direction I wanted. And, you know, after doing that four to five years, I moved on and did some work, what we call work acceptance, where I engaged with additional stakeholders across the laboratory to ensure that projects that the researchers were taking on align with our mission.

that they weren’t competing with the private sector. And then was really in September of 2024 where I landed, I like to call it my dream job. And that’s where I am today as an operations officer. And I’m definitely solving problems. We’re in the advanced energy technologies directorate, very much applied directorate. And again, I can interact with people, collaborate. I like to say that the things that we do in a national lab are so complex that it really takes the team.

It’s a team effort and I am all about teamwork and I’m really happy to be part of the team in AUT here at Argonne.

ADAMS (11:02)

Wow, that’s a great trajectory. And I love that you pulled out some of the themes that I want to want to touch on. one of the first ones that comes to mind when you talk about, early on in your career and even in your academic career was You wanted to solve problems that you had more immediate feedback, but also that you, you were able to find these projects where you had a personal

connection with them and it really tapped into your own personal motivations and things that you valued.

I’m just curious where that self-awareness came from at such an early stage in your career.

YOUKER (11:35)

I think being at the crime lab, again, really realized I love solving problems. This is really cool stuff. I was actually, they kind of deterred me from pursuing this because they said there’s not a whole lot of growth opportunity here. Getting an advanced degree isn’t going to help you. I think seeing, I’m very close to my family and seeing the struggles that my dad had been through.

and kind of just being able to tie things together and make connections, it sort of come easy to me. Like I’m able to even do that in my role now. And it just, for me, it just adds like extra oomph to the excitement that was already there.

ADAMS (12:12)

was that common for that group where some people would just be able to pick like ready readily available projects and others had to kind of create something of their own or was that atypical where you were? And if so, like,

Can you talk a little bit about again, how you thought that could even be something, an option for you and how you went about doing that?

YOUKER (12:34)

Yeah, I would say it was definitely atypical because that’s why I said it was really difficult when I first went there to pick a project because the menu and I were in the line. I didn’t like the menu. This was not my favorite restaurant, so to speak. So and I will say it wasn’t like completely new because some of the things that we did with the inorganic chemists were we built on some complexes that he was building for a different purpose, but had similar chemistry that would

ultimately inhibit the enzyme they were looking at. It was really pulling together these two different ideas. So this inorganic and this biochemistry, and even taking the classes that were required as a PhD student, I was learning that these are very closely linked. again, kind of trying to find ways that I could sort of make an impact, at least in the way that I thought related to diabetes, because it was, I had experienced it pretty much my whole life with my father.

but then for my brother to be diagnosed as well. It kind of just came together, but I think to your point, I was also willing to think outside the box a little bit in the sense that I wasn’t just gonna take something off the menu. And I actually never kind of thought about it that way, but I think I would encourage, that would be like one of the things I would encourage your students to do is to think outside the box and.

you know, not just focus on what’s presented in front of you and that it’s okay to come up with your new ideas. And as I mentioned, I failed a lot, but it’s okay. That’s part of the game.

ADAMS (13:59)

Yeah,

absolutely. And I also would imagine and you could tell me if you if this resonates with you, but having that mentality that, yeah, this I’m going to fail. It’s OK. I’m going to keep trying. mean, that signals to leaders and decision makers that, yeah, this is actually somebody who I’d be willing to kind of go outside of the box with them. Right. All right. I’d be willing to allow them to go slightly outside of the box because they look like somebody who is going to really go after it.

YOUKER (14:27)

it was actually kind of surprising to me because I, you know, would say in high school and even undergrad, I didn’t feel so confident. I played basketball for a couple of years and then ran cross country and it was always good being a part of a team. But it was actually once I ran my first marathon, which I did at age 20.

that gave me confidence in any realm. Like the fact that I was able to do that gave me the confidence to ask these questions and propose these ideas that maybe others didn’t think of or maybe others were too afraid to even ask.

ADAMS (14:58)

Yeah, and I love what you said about the confidence from the marathon gave you confidence in any realm because that’s a really important insight and something that I too have found for myself that a lot of people actually are not conscious that you can transfer confidence to other realms

And so many people like think, I’m only good in this one area. It’s like, no, actually, if you’re willing to give it a shot, a lot of those skills and mindsets are transferable.

one of the things that you talked about, in the operational role is again, enjoying being able to solve problems. And I’m curious if you think about taking on these new roles in advance saying, these are really cool problems that I think I’ll be able to solve. Or if you’re sort of like, yeah, there’s several reasons why this could be good. And I’m sure there’s going to be cool problems I can solve. once I get in there, kind of.

dig them and uncover them. Can you talk a little bit about how you approach these new opportunities?

YOUKER (15:55)

Yeah, I mean, I think for sure there’s a lot of situations where individuals come right in my office and they’ve got a problem and we need to solve it immediately or we need to figure out how we’re going to solve it. But there is, you know, obviously leading indicators that something is about to fail. So any, you know, I always like to be proactive instead of reactive whenever we can. Sometimes you have to be reactive, but to the extent that you can be proactive, you know, always beneficial. And, you know,

When you were asking the question, my mind was kind of going back to how I even realized that I wanted this role as a director at operations officer. And it was actually during when I interviewed for the work plane control manager position that the COO of the lab at the time, she was down the interview, she interviewed me. And I left that interview like saying, my God, that was awful. That was probably like the most important person to interview with and it went the worst.

And the reason being is because she asked me, what do you want to do next? And in my eyes here, I wasn’t even in this role yet. And she’s already saying, well, what are you going to do five years down the road? And I was very hesitant. And I said, well, maybe I want to be this. And she picked up on that immediately. And I think she ultimately didn’t think I would be a good candidate. It’s funny because today her and I have a very good working relationship, but she really forced me to think about.

what I wanted to do. And it was during the five years in that role and then the role I had right after that I learned that this is the job I wanted.

ADAMS (17:29)

All right, Mandy, can you give us an example of how you use leadership skills in your work?

YOUKER (17:33)

So I think leadership skills are important in my daily work, for sure. Communication, building relationships, building trust, teamwork, obviously solving problems. But I wanna take a step back and talk a little bit about one of my first experiences in my position now. So I was hired in September, and one of the things this directorate likes to do is they host these strategy meetings twice a year. And the first one was literally a month after I was hired.

And I was asked to give a presentation and I was a bit nervous about it just because it was a new group, it was a new environment, and it was gonna be offsite. And of course, one of the things the group likes to do is icebreakers. And I don’t know about you, but I think as with many people, the heart starts to race, you get a little nervous, you get a little sweaty when you hear icebreaker. But the icebreaker was pretty easy in this case. was, you

tell them three things about yourself and then people would start to kind of guess who this person is. So, you know, ideally you’d pick things that people wouldn’t think about you. But what it did, and I noticed, I was very much observant during the strategy meeting, is it really enabled everyone to open up. They were asking more questions, they were giving really good feedback, they were making connections. It just created that collaborative environment that you really want to see and you want to be a part of. So,

you know, again, made a big impact for me. And then our second strategy meeting, you know, it was a bucket list. So what’s something that you wanna do on your bucket list? And again, same type of thing where we, know, and again, strategy meeting would include the senior leaders within the directorate, but also some early career folks that, you know, were high performing. So really a good mix of people. And then our third strategy meeting came in September of 25, and I was tasked with the icebreaker. And I was putting a lot of pressure on myself because, know,

I wanted to make sure that I could create the same type of environment that I previously had seen. And several years prior, I had taken an improv class with one of my coworkers. And again, not necessarily my favorite thing to do or my company, but I said, you know what? As we often hear in order to grow, you have to kind of get outside your comfort zone. And one of the things that we did to kind of warm up every day was you had to come up with a way to describe yourself.

And you kind of had to act it out. And that was like the way that you would remember everyone’s name. We’d go around in a circle. And for me, it was Marathon Mandy, and I would pretend like I’m running. And again, it did that. It was like the nerves kind of went away. So I had, I said, okay, well, maybe, maybe, I’m not sure how people are gonna respond to this. You know, I know there’s definitely different personalities, ⁓ you know, not as people that don’t like to do these kinds of things typically in science.

ADAMS (19:54)

Like as soon as you do.

YOUKER (20:10)

So I proposed it to a few of our division directors and I got really mixed feedback. Some were like right in and they had their answer right away about what their new name was gonna be. And others were really hesitant, like, no, I don’t wanna do this any way. But for me, that was the answer I wanted. This is what we were gonna do. And it turned out even better than I thought to the point that like when I see some of these individuals, I remember them by what they said. I actually refer to them in that way.

ADAMS (20:15)

Sorry.

YOUKER (20:37)

And the way the strategy meeting works is, ⁓ you know, sometimes on the second day we have some additional people across the lab come and be a part of this. And we actually, you know, wanted them to experience this as well. And you could definitely see the nerves, but it really opened them up. They were more engaged, more collaborative, and it was just such a small thing that made such a big impact. And I think, you know, in terms of leadership skills,

you know, I was going outside my comfort zone. I was afraid how people were going to react to, you know, me trying to put something on them that they didn’t want to do. But I saw the benefit. I saw it in two cases prior and I wanted to, you know, do something different. And, you know, I feel like whenever you can get movement involved and get people getting their body moving as well, that, you know, adds to the excitement and the energy in the room. And, you know, so I think going outside your comfort zone, even when there’s resistance,

it can really pay dividends in the end for sure.

ADAMS (21:32)

Yeah, I love this example. You know, there’s a couple of things that come to mind. So one is this idea about setting the culture for specific meetings for a specific group of people, you know, and so first of all, there’s already, I like that it’s already embedded in how this strategy works, right? There will be an icebreaker of some sort. And you saw how those worked in the past and the impact those could have. So that was great.

But then you’re saying, know, okay, now it’s my turn. It’s my turn to be the one to choose how this group kind of starts its forming of this particular session. And then it may be, as you said, it may even carry beyond this session. And so you thought intentionally about how you wanted to do that. And I love that you solicited feedback.

but move forward even though the feedback was mixed, right? So you could have easily said, this is my first go around. I wanna make sure that everybody is on board before I do it. And so let’s start with there. Let’s start with choosing to move forward with mixed feedback on your idea, just sort of what were you thinking about? You know what, I’m gonna do it anyway.

YOUKER (22:40)

No, I mean, I think, know, like, my previous role, so we’re playing control, we’re always collecting feedback. And, you know, I’m working in a field that not everybody is excited about and wants to get on board with because, you know, in some cases, the additional safety measures are going to slow the researchers on it. And there’s not that buy in. But I think when you can get some of the people

And as long as you’re willing to try it out the way that I was looking at it, you even if it doesn’t work, you’re still going to learn something from it, you know? And I like the idea that it made people get a little uncomfortable because I know I was uncomfortable when I was in prom class. I didn’t want to do this. My heart was racing. I’m sweating. But once I did it, it was like this immediate relaxation that occurred. So I wanted others to experience that as well.

ADAMS (23:27)

Yeah, I think that’s another really important leadership skill or characteristic, whatever you want to call it. But this idea of I have experienced something that was beneficial to me personally and to me in a different group that I was in. And I want to bring this to this new group that I’m leading, whether it be, you your manager and it’s a team that stays together for a long time, or in this case, you know, you’re leading this meeting. I do think that when you

When I think of innovation and when I think of just trying new things that oftentimes what can refresh ideas, what can refresh teams is people who are willing to bring something from a different experience into that group. And so can you talk a little bit about, is that something that you do frequently?

in your leadership is saying, okay, you this worked in a different group or this worked in a different setting, even different context, same way I’m seeing the same with you, same way we’re like, well, I’m confident in marathoning. So I’m confident in these other places. So you and I have a similar trait. You’re really good at transferring different experiences and mindsets across the different areas that you move in. And I’m just curious, like how else, what are some other examples maybe where you find yourself doing that in?

in your role as a leader.

YOUKER (24:42)

Yeah, you know, I think for sure in that project that I did for a little over a year, you know, I was kind of tasked at the time with 60 days, you got to kind of do this audit of all of our projects and make sure that we’re aligned. And, you know, you also have to appease, you know, our oversight group and our leadership of the laboratory and your directorate and the researchers and kind of trying to find that balance. And

you know, it’s almost like you’re playing to both sides. you this is, you have to, you know, let people, you know, do their complaining, their venting and make sure that they’re being heard. But then you have to actually, you know, take action. And I saw this firsthand in the project before with the work plane control where it was a large team that was put together and we spent months complaining. And finally, the head of the project too is my,

My mentor supervisor, I like to call him our mentor and now really good friend, he’s now retired. He was like, look guys, need to get, you need to get moved. But I think you have to still like give people the time, allow them to vent, allow them to express their opinions, give their feedback, but then you have to move. You can’t just stay static there. And I think I’ve seen that in a lot of my different, you know, jobs and different roles at the laboratory for sure.

ADAMS (26:08)

All right, Mandy, as we wrap up, what advice do you have for STEM professionals who are interested in pursuing leadership roles?

YOUKER (26:15)

So my advice would be, obviously your technical skills are gonna get you your degree. They’re gonna likely land you your first job, maybe your second job, like maybe even your third job. However, it’s really the soft skills or as one of my favorite professors from the University of Chicago, a strategic lab leadership program, the essential skills that will really get you into the leadership pathway. Communication, and I’ve stressed on these before, communication, extremely important, making sure that we’re

People understand each other because what one person is saying is not always heard. And it’s not always heard the same way by others that may be in the same room. Building trust, building those relationships, having that accountability for yourself as well as for your team. Teamwork, again, everything that we do is so complex, you need the team. Ultimately, people really wanna feel appreciated and they wanna feel that you care about them.

So I really try to make it about a team as much as possible. And I’m gonna leave you with an example of something that I experienced with, again, I’m going back to that strategy meeting. really within the first month, I knew this was the right job. I knew this was the right group. And this may seem small, but for me, it’s kind of the little things that add up that really solidified I was in the right spot. So we were, know,

three days away at this strategy workshop. was a Wednesday through a Friday and we landed Chicago, I don’t remember, six, seven o’clock at night. Okay. And at that point, think, you everybody wants to get home. They want to see their families. They want to see their kids. They’re ready to rush off the plane. And when I was in research traveling a lot, that was always what happened. Like everybody just kind of went their separate ways. People didn’t, you know, necessarily go get their baggage or walk out together. And when I walked out the plane, I was at the back of the plane, the entire leadership team,

was out there shaking everyone’s hands who participated in this meeting. And that meant so much to me because it showed that they cared, they were thankful, they appreciated your participation. And we were in this together. And again, I shared that story with others, but it just meant so much to me. So I think that anything you can do to make it so people feel like they’re cared about. And you know, I…

looking over through my career, ⁓ I talked about two leaders that really made an impact for me. And I genuinely felt like they cared about me. And they weren’t, but it wasn’t like they were so nice that they weren’t afraid to tell me when I was doing something wrong either. But they really showed that appreciation and that caring that I think everyone just our human nature to want that. And again, yes, the technical skills are gonna get your foot in the door, but it’s really these essential skills.

that are going to pave the way for your leadership career.

ADAMS (28:52)

Mandy, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today.

YOUKER (28:55)

Thank you.